You Have a Choice – Exploring Vaccine Truths Dr. Shannon Kroner

October 11, 2023

This week, I’m so pumped for you to hear from doctor Shannon Kroner.

After working with children with special needs for years, Shannon began to notice patterns in their behavior. Between this and hearing their parents’ testimonies and then having her own personal vaccine injury, Shannon was driven to do her own research and to try to pinpoint the cause. 

Story after story after story. The family’s testimonies coupled with research on what actually is in these vaccines led Shannon to become an advocate for freedom of choice.

Shannon has her doctorate in psychology, is an executive director for a nonprofit, an author, a freedom fighter, and has been an advocate for vaccine choice for over two decades. I encourage you to listen to this episode with an open mind.

Press play, freedom fighters!

Exploring Vaccine Truths: Understanding Risks, Protecting Freedom, and Making Informed Choices


Our choices matter, and we do the best we can with the information we are provided with, which is why I’m such a proponent for providing a platform for people like doctor Shannon to speak out, share facts, and protect our freedoms. What’s popular isn’t always right, what’s right isn’t always popular. 

So, doctor Shannon, first and foremost, thank you for being here. But I wanna give the listeners a background on your expertise before we dive into the nitty gritty because I feel as though you have so much knowledge that is gonna help people through this whole process of making these tough decisions for their family, which you and I both know are the lifetime choices.

So why don’t you let everyone know where you started?

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:02:16]:

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me on too. I’m happy to be here. But, yeah. So, I mean, I started back in The early 2000. In 2001, I became what’s called a floor time therapist, And, you know, I was kinda just I knew I wanted to work with kids, and I knew I wanted to work with children with special needs, and I really just didn’t know In what way I wanted to do that because I was just starting out. 

And so I became a full time therapist, which, essentially is like a play therapist For kids who have special needs, most of the population that I worked with, were kids that were recently diagnosed with autism. And part of my job was to do the first initial intake.

And so I would sit with the families and sit with the parents and really kind of, You know, ask all the questions of, you know, what was your labor like? What was your pregnancy like? Has your child Been meeting milestones, what were their first, you know, first words, first steps, things like that. 

And, I really, it was the first time I had ever heard of it, but I kept hearing it over and over again that parents were connecting vaccines, like a horrible vaccine reaction to their child’s delays. And, it was always I would hear these stories of, like, my pregnancy was fine. My labor was fine. 

Usually, parents, they avoided all the things that they were supposed to avoid during pregnancy and, you know, did everything right. And then it would come time to shots, and they would bring their kids in, bring their new little babies in to see the doctor, and, you know, here they were doing everything right according to what they thought they’re supposed to do, and the doctor would say, you know, you need to get so many shots or whatever. 

And I would always hear these stories about how, like, they did what they were supposed to do and then something changed in their child. And whether it happened really early on or oftentimes, it would happen around, like, between the ages of 2 and 3, that the child would have a horrible reaction to a round of shots, usually with high fever, brain swelling, or a seizure, a fever that never end or a high pitched scream or this horrible diarrhea that lasted for days, and then the child was a different child.

They lost the ability to make eye contact. They didn’t look in the direction when their name was called. They didn’t know you know, everything became delayed, whether it’s their first steps or crawling or talking, if they had words, they lost those words.

And, and I heard this story over and over again, and here I am, you know, in my early twenties. I’m not quite a parent yet. 

Parents connect vaccines to child’s developmental delays

And, it really kind of fueled this fire inside of me to do more research and to help more children. I went on and got my master’s degree in special education, and I followed that with a doctorate in psychology. And I ended up becoming an educational therapist, and, and then crazy enough, like, in 2009, I was pregnant with my 1st child, I had really thought that it was the vaccine schedule. 

I thought it was the overwhelming vaccine schedule.

Today, a child, when they are born, is expected to get almost a 100 doses of 17 vaccines by the time they turn 18, starting with the 1st day of life. They’re given vitamin k and hepatitis b, both with tons of aluminum.

Vitamin k has lots of alcohol in it, and, I just thought it was, like, at this overwhelming schedule. I never really thought that it was, like, 1 individual vaccine could just be the end, could just be the end of everything. 

And so when it was 2009, it was during swine flu, and I was pregnant with my first son, 12 weeks pregnant, and I went in to see my doctor for a regular checkup. And he had said, well, you know, the swine flu’s happening, you need to get the swine flu shot and the flu shot. 

And I had said I knew enough about vaccines to decline the swine flu shot. I said I don’t know anything about it. I don’t want it. And so he really kind of was like, well, you then you really should get the flu shot because you work with kids and you don’t wanna get a fever.


You don’t wanna get sick. It can be detrimental to your child. And so I got the flu shot because they had said it was a preservative free flu shot. And I thought to myself, well, if it’s preservative free, then that means there’s, like, nothing bad in it. And I got the preservative free flu shot. 

And within a few days, I ended up profusely leaking amniotic fluid, had a horrible reaction, and ended up at the ER.

They told me that they actually told me that I lost my baby. I went to the OB the next day who said, you know, We have good news and bad news.


The good news is there’s still a strong heartbeat. The bad news is you’ve lost 95% of your amniotic fluid, And there’s no chance of survival, and I would not accept that. And so I went to another doctor for another opinion. 

They told me the exact same thing. When I said I wasn’t gonna end the pregnancy, they thought I was absolutely insane. And, and so I went and got another opinion, Same thing. Another opinion. I mean, I kept going for opinion after opinion until someone would just agree with me that there’s a chance of survival.


I never I never got that, and so I put myself on bed rest, and I did my own research.

And I found that just by being hydrated, you can reproduce amniotic fluid. And so, I put myself on bed rest. I drank tons and tons of water, and that all happened to me in week 12, and by week 20, my amniotic fluid was back to 100%. 

And I carried full term. There were a few complications with my son’s leg because my uterus had collapsed on him when I lost the amniotic fluid.


So he did end up needing reconstructive knee surgery, when he was born. But other than that, you know, today, I have an amazing 13 year old son who’s the smartest kid and wow. 

Funny as you know, just funny, smart, way taller than me. And that was really, Really, really, like, what woke me up to this whole vaccine craziness and and made me realize that it’s not the vaccine schedule, and it’s not a whole bunch of vaccines at one time, although that can cause a problem.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:09:25]:

But it’s just every single vaccine, there’s no it’s not foolproof.

There’s risk with every vaccine and, and people really just need to do the appropriate research before they vaccinate.

Maren [00:09:45]:

No. But that story gave me chills. So if you’re listening to this and that didn’t give you chills and show you how good God is wow. And so that was the catalyst of you advocating for yourself, obviously, advocating for your son and ergo now being a voice for others. That that testimony is insane. 

Yeah. I can’t even like and, you know, as you’re telling this, we can’t tell you this story. One of my dearest friends told that same sort of story.

Now she doesn’t work with children, but she convinced her to get the flu shot because they said, well, you know, you’re that way because it lasts whatever they try to say it is. It lasts, you know, 6 to 8 months, whatever. 

That way, your baby will be too young to get it, you know, during the full season, so you get it now, and that way, the baby’s protected during flu season, you know, come December. 

So her baby was due in June. Well, sure enough, allergic reaction, unreal health complications to the point where excessive bleeding, they thought she had cancer, a tumor. Her baby when the baby was born, they were separated because she was bleeding out. It was awful. And what it was is she had never ever gotten a flu shot before.

So she didn’t she didn’t know. Like right? And they convinced her to get it. And sure enough, that’s what happened. And then she had, you know, all of these issues after having the baby, like, with Recycle and it’s and, you know, we we we turn on the television right now, and what are they promoting? 

Consider The Risks of Vaccines and Weigh The Pros and Cons

They’re promoting because we’re in the fall and they’re pro we’re going into the winter season, every CVS commercial, every Walgreens. You know, and now they’re offering 2, like a bonus, right? Like, get, get your flu shot and get your COVID shot at the same time.

They have the people, you know, with their arms up with the 2 Band Aids, like a 2 for 1 deal. And you know, but it’s like anything. We are all uniquely made and what may be okay for some, it’s just not for everyone.


It’s not a one size fits all and you’re literally rolling the dice when you do this. I always encourage people to weigh the pros and cons. Right? Everything has a risk benefit analysis.

And I know you because you’re such an advocate now, and and you are outwardly, you know, spoken about it, I’m sure you get a lot of heat from people because there’s the camp that will be upset or angry because they feel like you are putting people in danger with quote, unquote misinformation and all of that. Right? 

And so how do you handle that, and how do you educate people? Because you are the type of person that, hey, your story is your story. These are the facts. This is what I’ve seen in the workplace, and this is also what I experienced, but also how do you show them I’m spitting facts to you, this isn’t like some conspiracy.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:13:27]:

Yeah. I mean, you know, I’ve actually been an advocate for vaccine choice for a really long time. So, I mean, that whole thing happened to me in 2009, and I ended up, you know, going on and having 2 children. 

And I’m in the state of California where we have the strictest vaccine mandate laws in the entire nation for children. And in 2015, we lost our personal belief, philosophical, religious exemptions. And then in 2019, we lost our medical exemptions. 

So I’ve really been in the trenches of this war for choice since, like, 2015, my doctoral dissertation from 2013 is literally a parents guide on choice, vaccine choice. I had no idea that, you know, they were gonna take that from us.

And so, You know, what do I mean, I’ve it’s really interesting. Before COVID, I got a lot of heat, So much heat. And when s b 277 passed for, you know, to take our personal belief exemptions away, I led the referendum for Los Angeles County to try and get it back onto the ballot. 

And one of the things one of my talking points when I would try and get signatures is and I’d be standing out in front of markets and going to festivals and stuff like that, trying to get as many signatures as possible. And one of the things I would say to people is, like, adult mandates are coming. 

Like, I don’t know how it’s gonna happen, but adult mandates are coming, and you need to prevent that from happening, so sign here. And they would say, you’re crazy. This is 2015.


You’re crazy. They could never mandate that. What are they gonna do? And I would say, I don’t know how it’s gonna happen, but If they could do this to our children in California, you’re next. 

And, you know, lo and behold, this pandemic happened, and we saw adult mandates for the first time ever. People were, you know, losing their jobs, losing having to be kicked out of college, not being able to be accepted into colleges, it became a requirement of job hiring. 

We were losing first responders left and right, first responders, nurses, doctors. I know an anesthesiologist that was literally, like, let go from UCLA because he refused to get the COVID vaccine. And so, you know, today, what’s happened is that so many people woke up to 2 things.


1, the force, the mandates, the coercion. Right? And so that rubbed them the wrong way. That no

Maren [00:16:21]:

Noone likes being told what to do, like, whether they admit it or not.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:16:24]:

Right. That’s very true. And the people who are on the fence, when you’re told when you’re on the fence with a vaccine, or really with anything, and then you’re told what to do, you’re forced to do something, they usually go in the opposite direction because they’re indecisive at the moment. And then if you’re gonna push it down their throat, they don’t want it. 

And so, that’s one thing that happened, but the other thing that happened is that we’ve seen so much vaccine injury as a result of the COVID vaccine. That, to just talk openly about vaccine injury has become something of the norm. And when I used to talk about vaccine injury prior to COVID, that’s when I would get hate mail. I would get hate mail and trolls on all my social media and

Maren [00:17:14]:

Mhmm. Shut down.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:17:15]:

I would have my accounts deleted and things like that because people did not accept that vaccines could injure.

Yep. But today, you talk about vaccine injury with literally anyone, you know, and it’s accepted. Even the people who are hardcore love vaccines have gotten all their boosters, if you could if you had a conversation with 1 of them and said, yeah, so and so got their booster and ended up with a heart attack after or Mhmm.

You know, ended up having a seizure or ended up dying or blood clots or whatever, it’s accepted now. It’s understood that that is a possibility and that vaccines do cause risk. Never before in the history of vaccines has it been so understanding that vaccines have a risk involved with it. 

And so I surprisingly and thankfully, I’m not getting the hate mail that I once used to get. And, and even with my book, you know, my I really was, like, really kind of expecting this, like, just, you know, wave of hate, and I got a few, like, angry messages on Twitter and Instagram and

Maren [00:18:33]:

Yeah. They’re always around.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:18:35]:

Yeah. They’re always around. The trolls are still around, but it’s definitely not what I used to get. It’s definitely not, you know, the same response. If anything, the response to my book has been just this outpouring of love and gratitude from so many families that it far outweighs the every now and then negative comment that I get. For sure. And it’s amazing. 

It’s amazing to see, and I’m really happy that I was able to, like, touch the lives of so many with.

Maren [00:19:09]:

Because it lets other moms know that they’re not this weirdo. Right? Like, I’ve had, you know, plenty of conversations on my podcast before, whether it’s about homeschooling or our conversation today. 

And, you know, a lot of these decisions when you and I were kids, we would be like, what? Like, that’s weird. You know? What are you Amish? You know? Like, they it was a very weird thing, but now it’s becoming more commonplace and that’s kind of the beauty. 

Listen, I am a full believer that social media is what you make of it. It can be a really dark place. It can be negative, but it can also be a light for people.

And I do believe that in 2020, people being locked at home was very eye opening and because they had their phone in their hand, they started making connections with one another. 

And now there’s crunchy moms groups. And now you’re starting to see it’s not just the ones who make these decisions, it’s 1,000. And I truly believe that we have a strength in numbers situation on our hand where when they go to push us, we push back now.

We don’t just say, okay, sure, we’ll do that. Now let’s talk about your book because I have it. I have my copy. And I wanna talk with you about the story that you just said, before we started recording about your friend who you’re giving it to.

Because I do believe that no matter what as a parent, you do the best you can with the information you have. And I don’t care what it is, whether it’s, do I breastfeed? Do I not breastfeed? Do I vaccinate my child? Do I not vaccinate? Do I do a spread out schedule? Do I co sleep? Do I not cry it out? 

Like, you do the best you can with information you have, and, ultimately, that’s what makes parenthood beautiful and also the hardest thing you could possibly ever do.

So the book, why don’t you talk about what inspired you to write it and what what your goal is for parents when they get it in their hands, whether they have you know, they’re in the the crux of, I’m pregnant from my with my 1st child or even I have 1 or 2 children. But now that I have more information, I might wanna do things a little differently.

Vaccine Choice is Crucial For Parents

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:21:52]:

I’m Unvaccinated, And That’s Okay. And actually it just recently got an award, the mom’s choice award, which I’m really excited about. That was a really big deal for me, Especially because of what the message of being unvaccinated, and that’s okay, is about. 

So, yeah, what inspired me is really you know, this journey that I’ve been on, I’ve met so many families that have vaccine injured children. I can’t even tell you how many families there are because it’s 1,000s. 

I’ve met 1,000s of families who followed their doctor’s suggestions and their children, unfortunately, ended up severely injured. I have friends whose children have actually died because of childhood vaccines.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:22:45]:

And choosing to vaccinate or not to vaccinate, choosing what you what any parent does with vaccines. Right? When they have this new little baby, or their child, the choice to vaccinate or not to vaccinate is it is literally one of the most important choices that any parent needs to make for their children ever.

I believe more so than what kind of diapers you’re gonna use or what car seat you buy or, you know, whatever it may be, when you’re gonna start solid foods, I think that the choice of whether you’re going to vaccinate or not vaccinate or spread them out or do 1 at a time, it is literally the most important decision that a parent will ever make for their children. 

The Importance of Vaccination Decisions:
“The choice to vaccinate or not to vaccinate is literally one of the most important choices that any parent needs to make for their children… it is literally the most important decision that a parent will ever make for their children.”
— Dr. Shannon Kroner

When I wrote this book, I had all these families in mind. And what I’ve come to find out, throughout the work that I do and the families that I’ve met is that more often than not, when there is a vaccine injured child, it’s often the 1st child and or, you know, it’s often the 1st child and then when that child is and there’s an injury or something bad happens, the 2nd child, they do something they do it differently, Whether they spread it out or do 1 at a time

Maren [00:24:19]:

or no vaccine or Right. Like a fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Yeah.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:24:24]:

And I can tell you, I know so many families whose first child is severely vaccine injured and their 2nd child has absolutely no vaccines at all because it’s the same, all the genetic makeup is the same.

So they’re not gonna make that same, you know, decision because they want a different outcome. And, really, that was the inspiration for my book because the story is about a little boy who is unvaccinated.

His older sister is vaccine injured, and his parents decide to make different decisions for him, and he goes through the story talking about why his parents made those different decisions and how they weighed the information that they got and all the things that were incorporated into making the decision not to vaccinate him. 

So whether it was the overwhelming vaccine schedule or the one size fits all vaccine program or how there’s, like, no liability with any vaccine whatsoever. All those things he talks about or even all the toxic ingredients and vaccines, and you really see it from a child’s perspective.


And when I wrote this book, what I had in mind, what I envisioned is that it’s really meant for parent and child to sit together and discuss and, like, because some of the words are some of the words and the concepts are higher education and but it’s written really for, like, a 6 year old. 

And so, you know, I had this vision in mind of a parent and a child. A parent would read the story to the child or the child would read the story of the parent, And then they would discuss. 

And that’s why there’s this really great glossary in the back because most people have no idea what formaldehyde is, or most people don’t know what encephalitis is or what the true definition of autism is. 

And, and so I’ve included this, you know, glossary, and then I included on the last page, are my favorite resources. So it’s all my favorite, you know, books, websites and documentaries. Yeah. And I even have, you know, the CDC Pink Book, which really kind of lists every single vaccine and the ingredients and Everything you need to know about each vaccine.

And, one of the things that right before we had started this, the conversation was that, you know, I have a friend, a very close family friend who I’ve known my whole life, but I have no idea what her vaccine is like, I don’t know what her views on vaccination are.

Maren [00:27:07]:

Because that’s what we’ve been discovering is that with 2020, all of a sudden people were asking. Like, that’s not something you would randomly ask people. Right? 

But now people feel like it’s pertinent information that they need to know. And it’s like, I don’t ask you what color underwear you’re wearing. Like, why are you asking me about my medical history? Anyway, continue. Like, you know, like, the fact that, like, we have to even think about those things

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:27:31]:

It’s unfortunate. It’s unfortunate that there even needs to be a book like this.

But there does need to be a book like this because children today are coerced and they are bullied and they’re made to feel bad. They’re made, Especially after COVID, children today are told that, you know, if they’re not vaccinated, they could kill grandma.

Or they can injure their friends at school. You know and it was happening even before COVID. Really quick aside story is that before COVID, my kids were in the LA Unified School District, it was flu season, and my older son was in the 3rd or 4th grade.

He was in the classroom with another kid who had not gotten his flu shot. Like, I know that family. They’re very much like minded. And, the school nurse came into the classroom and said, you know, I’m here to talk to you about the flu vaccine and it’s importance because it’s flu season. Show me who’s gotten their flu shot.

And, you know, all the kids raised their hands, And my son and his friend kinda looked at each other and they’re like, are we supposed to should we…

Maren [00:28:49]:


Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:28:49]:

Should we put our hand up? Should we not? Like, we don’t wanna be singled out. And then the school nurse then lectured the whole class. I’m like, those who didn’t get their flu shot, you really should get it because you’re endangering your peers and blah blah blah. 

So but that messaging has only been ramped up because of COVID. And so I really believe that’s another reason why I wrote this book is that children need to be armed with the information so that they could When they’re in a scenario like that, they’re able to fight that battle. They’re able to come out of that and with the knowledge to be able to kind of speak back and say, like, listen.


Vaccines Are Not Foolproof – This Is About Your Child’s Safety

Well, you know, vaccines, they are not foolproof. Vaccines have risk, you know, things like that, or vaccines have heavy metals in them. There’s aluminum. There’s formaldehyde. It’s carcinogenic. It can cause cancer. 

And so that was another reason why I wrote this book: to give the children the knowledge and the information that they need in today’s crazy world.

I’m Unvaccinated and That’s OK! is the story of an unvaccinated child named Nicholas Novaks, who shares the many reasons why his parents have chosen not to vaccinate him.

Nicholas explains his parents’ personal concerns about vaccine injury, the importance of finding a doctor they can trust and openly speak with, the research they did before making this decision, and what life is like for an unvaccinated child who has an older, vaccine-injured sibling.


Maren [00:29:58]:

And now you’re providing information to someone who may not even know to look for that.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:30:06]:

Right. And so going back to my friends. So my friend, she is someone who she and I know well, she’s a family friend. She and I have never had a conversation about vaccines before. She’s about to give birth in a few weeks. 

And as a baby shower gift, I gave her a bunch of cute little clothes, but then I also threw in my book. And, and in the inside cover, what I wrote is that I don’t know, you know, your opinion on childhood vaccines, but please use this book to the best of your advantage to, you know, there’s a ton of resources in it, and please do the research because it will be the most important decision that you ever make for your child. It really will.


And and and once someone vaccinates and there is an injury, it’s really hard to go back to, you know, especially if it’s something like autism.

Maren [00:31:08]:

Because it is honestly like, obviously, it affects the child, but something like that affects the whole family Oh. As well. And I, you know, I don’t think people really take that into account of what it does to, obviously, the mom and the dad, right, but the other child too.

Are you aware of the growing acknowledgment that vaccines carry risks?

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:31:24]:

To everybody to everybody involved, most sadly, most, marriages and in divorce when they have special needs children because it’s just, one, it’s just taxing on, like, the family.

But it’s also a huge money consumer when you have a family that has a child with special needs and there’s like a 1000000 different doctors appointments and a 1000000 different therapy appointments, and then There’s also special kinda schools Yeah. And you need special equipment. 

I mean, it’s very expensive to have a child with special needs. And, and so yeah. I mean, it and then, you know, sometimes the other children are collected because all the focus is on the child with the special needs. So there’s a lot that goes into it. And so that’s why when I say that, you know and I’ve been working with kids with special needs since 2001.

In the homes, I’m you know, I go and I work with the children. I’ve worked with them in their homes and stuff, and I see what goes on. And it’s really hard. It’s really hard on the mom, the dad, the siblings, everyone. 

So, you know, my message to my friend before she gives birth is really to do the research. There’s nothing else that you need to research. Obviously, it’s important to breastfeed.

Obviously, it’s important to have, you know, everything safe and in your house and things like that. But the choice to vaccinate or not, the pressure will be on. Right. 

I can guarantee that on the 1st day when the child is born, all the nurses, you know, especially if the child is not a home birth, which I doubt that is gonna be for my friend. If it’s a hospital birth, the nurses, the doctors, it’s all chaos. 

And it is not required, but it’s recommended by the CDC to get the hepatitis shot. And, you know, I’ll never forget with both my kids, I had to tell my husband, like, you stay as they take the baby away to go wash the baby around and stuff like that. I said to my husband, I’m like, you do not take your eyes off of them because…

Maren [00:33:50]:

I told my husband the same. I’m like, we’re getting a doula because the doula will worry about me, and you have to be focused on the baby because I don’t. I have trust issues.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:34:00]:

I have severe trust issues. I mean everybody should have trust issues. In today’s world, it’s very unfortunate, But there is an agenda and it is there, and there’s no denying that there’s this agenda to get vaccines into every single arm. 

We’ve heard many different scientists and doctors and stuff like that say that. It’s on every channel, every commercial, every billboard, you walk into, like, any kind of pharmacy today and there are signs everywhere, flu shot, flu shot, flu shot. 

And so yeah. I mean, you know, I just think that we really need people to be smart and they need to be proactive.

They need to do the research. It’s the most important research that any parent can do for their children, and it’s worth the time and the energy. And I’ve actually made it extremely easy with my book because there’s a QR code on the resource page, and all you have to do is scan the QR code. It takes you all to all the live links. So you just scan the QR code. 

There’s all the links that I have for you know, that I’ve listed in my book that anybody can just go to and Start to do the research and, you know, and there’s a ton of, my I would say my book is a perfect starting point. It doesn’t have that much, you know, detailed information.

Maren [00:35:32]:

But it gets your brain thinking. Yeah. And my husband teased me when I got it when he started, like, flipping through it because at the time, like, I think the baby was only, like, 16 months old. 

You know what I mean? And I said, well, at the very least, the main character’s name is Nicholas because that’s his name. But what I like about and and circling back to what you said about equipping children. Because a dear friend of mine, her daughter had a, it was like a school trip that you look forward to whenever you reach that grade, right? 

Like everyone knows, like for me, in 8th grade, we knew we would go to Frost Valley. Like, it was, like, the big thing.

Right? You know, some kids go to DC. Some people go to LA, whatever it is, right, so she had this big trip. And out of nowhere, they received an email from the school nurse who I think is kind of relatively new to their district saying, oh, you know, just so you know, she may not be eligible to go because she’s not up to date on whatever the shot was. 

Importance of equipping children with age-appropriate responses through books and discussions about vaccines

Now I have impressed my knowledge into her brain on all of these things, and now she’s really rethinking things and going back. I don’t wanna give my kids this. I don’t wanna give my kids that. 

And she was torn as a parent, because this is the decision that she and her husband have made, right, because they’ve been doing all the research, but she knew that this was gonna impact her kid. Like, you know, she’s been looking forward to this.

She would have been the only kid in her grade not going. Right? Like, this might have been something that she honestly would, down the line, like, rebel on or have you know, be really traumatized with, like, no joke. She’s like, Maren, what do I do? 

She’s like, obviously, she knows, like, you and I know that you can’t take vaccines back. Like, your child can get sick with said disease, and there’s treatment for said disease, if perchance they were ever even get it, because most of these things, they’re never even gonna touch.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:38:00]:

it. Yeah. But, I mean, like, back in the day, like, I got chicken pox. Every single one of my friends got chicken pox.

Maren [00:38:05]:

This is how I have my scar.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:38:06]:

Yeah. I have a scar up there too. That’s exactly like, I mean, it’s like, Everybody got chicken pox. When my mom was younger, everybody got the measles, and my mom talks about how she had the measles and her sisters had the measles. 

Like, these are especially with today’s medicine, I mean, they’re compatible. Like, you can be right. It’s you know?

Maren [00:38:31]:

But that’s why I love the book because she can equip her daughter with these responses that because it’s it’s a child, right, obviously, in the book, and so it’s not gonna be, you know, something that goes over another fellow 9 year old’s head or I have another girlfriend who the school was pushing them. 

They had to sign a form saying, we acknowledge, you know, the risk, blah blah blah on meningitis, but equips her daughters with knowing why they are choosing not to and how to respond. And I think that that’s huge for, like you said, the parents and the children. 

And you’ve gotten this book into some pretty prominent hands. And like we’ve talked about, you know, talking about vaccines and and being outwardly spoken, like, it was, it comes with risk, honestly, sometimes. 

And I’m just curious, like, how have you and there’s obviously a very special person whose hands it got into in the last week.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:41:24]:

This will be the 1st interview that I give because I’ve done many interviews, but this will be the first one where I talk about it so I’m really excited.

Maren [00:41:40]:

So, you know, forever my president. But with that being said, how have you aligned yourself with celebrity endorsements, politically with people, leaders. How how have you done that? And, obviously, that only supports the cause even more. So why don’t you

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:42:07]:

Anybody can go on my website, which is, and you can see a whole range of pictures of people who are holding up my book, from celebrities to politicians to, you know, hosts of really popular podcasts and stuff like that to doctors. 

So first of all, something about me is I am someone who goes after exactly what I want. And if I want something, I see it, I envision it, I pray about it, and I make it happen. 

And, that is just how I have always led my life is that, I’m a I’m I love to manifest the things that I see if I see and imagine that something’s gonna help In the long run, I will, really just manifest it. 

And so a lot of those people that I’ve met along the way in this journey, Such as, you know, for instance, like Ricky Schroeder or Isaiah Morales, you know, Doctor Peter McCullough, you know, Del BigTree. Del Bigtree is actually… so his organization, which is I CAN, Informed Consent Action Network. They did the imprint on this book.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:43:26]:

So it was published by Skyhorse, and then Del Bigtree, a nonprofit organization, did the imprint. So that also helps in getting like, they were the ones who gave the book to doctor Peter McCullough. 

I’ve really kind of immersed myself into the freedom fight for vaccine choice, and I go to a lot of the events. I speak at a lot of the events, and, and so that’s really kind of where I meet people and I. 

You’ll never see me leave the house without my book. I carry 1 in my purse at all times. I’m in Los Angeles. There’s a 1000000 celebrities out here, And so I run into people all the time and so I always have a book on hand and several in my car in case of you know, in case I see something.

And I actually have really, like, no fear, no intimidation speaking to whoever it is, whoever it is that’s out there, no matter what their celebrity status is, they’re a person Mhmm. Just like me. They go to sleep at night. They go to use the bathroom. Like, They are a person. They are not like this untouchable being.


And so, you know, I kinda look at that. In that, they’re making these decisions too. Whether they’re a parent or a grandparent or a future parent or for themselves, they have to make vaccine decisions too. 

There’s vaccine messaging that’s everywhere. So, that’s kind of really how I’ve gotten to know a lot of these people, and I can call many of the people that are on my website, my friends. I, you know, speak with a lot of them regularly. 

But the most recent person who I gave my book to was president Trump, and that was a really big deal for me. I would have to say that was one of those accomplishments that I will forever remember and, it’s just something you know, it’s funny. A couple years ago, I had this, like, desire. 

I, like, I really, really wanted to meet him to talk to him about my organization because, in which we

Maren [00:45:41]:

haven’t been disclosed at all. Yeah. We definitely wanna touch on that.

United Through Religious Freedom. Finding Solutions To Protect It.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:45:44]:

So, back in 2019, just to kind of like an aside, when the when our medical mandate or medical exemptions were taken away in California, I had this conversation with a senator in, up in Sacramento, and he had said the only way that you’re gonna beat this is with God. 

Yeah. And I was just like, you know, that’s a really good point. And he’s and so he and I kinda had this conversation. He’s like, if you can get religious leaders involved, That could be an angle. 

And, and I was like, you know, I’m going to build a coalition of all these different faith leaders that are for the freedom of vaccine choice. And so back in 2019, I set out to do exactly that. I created a nonprofit organization.

It’s called Freedom of Religion United Solutions. The acronym is FOR-US, And I literally started cold calling faith leaders that had spoken out about childhood vaccines because the COVID hadn’t even happened yet.

So, you know, I was just doing my research. Any kind of, like, Rabbi, pastor, priest, whoever it was that, would speak openly about, one, freedom. Like, if they were passionate about freedom, then I figured I could call them and start talking about vaccines or if they had any history of, like, even one statement about vaccines. 

So I started cold calling faith leaders and started to very gradually build this coalition of different faith leaders who believe in vaccine choice. And then that was in September of 2019. Six months later, we’re in a full blown pandemic. Right? And I knew that the vaccines were coming.

Lo and behold, the vaccine there was the whole vaccine messaging starting to come out, and I knew that If Trump were not to be president again for the 2020 election, I knew that Biden would mandate the vaccine for everyone. 

And so I ended up getting, like, just a flood of faith leaders reaching out to me, contacting me about, vaccine choice. How can I get involved in your organization? 

What is it that I can do to help? And so we were the first organization out there to really kind of put, you know, religious vaccine exemptions. We had a really great legal team who wrote a religious vaccine exemption that was really based on our constitution and our first amendment rights. 

We had that on our website for free. It was a nonprofit organization, so it was really donation based. And we were able to help, like, tens of thousands of people throughout the pandemic keep their jobs, stay in school, apply to college, and really save their lives. 

And so and so that’s really kind of so one of the things I really wanted to do was…  and it’s kind of all just this the universe works in amazing ways.


It was right before the election. It was in October, and I happened to be at an event where Tiffany Trump was, and I went up to her, Just started speaking to her. I was like, listen. Here’s my card. This is what I do. Your dad needs to win. 

But I was like, one of the things that he needs to do is one of the talking points that he needs to start talking about is vaccine choice. He needs to let people because he was already kind of, like, pushing the Warp Speed.

So, like, one of the things that I get asked all the time is how could I possibly still support Trump when he did Warp Speed? And I want to say

First of all, he came out right at the beginning of the pandemic saying, You know, Hydroxychloroquine Mhmm. And there’s all these other methods to treat it, and he would go on about that and constantly get shut down or ridiculed. He would always say, you know, Here’s these methods. Treat it. Prevent it.

Maren [00:50:32]:

Right. And then he would get strong armed by Fauci because, you know, Trump wasn’t the doctor. I’m the doctor, after, so Right. Listen to me.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:50:40]:

Exactly. And it it’s because of Trump that early early on, I think it was like in March, either March or April that I actually ordered hydroxychloroquine from, like, some pharmacy in Canada because, you know, he had said it, and I did my own research on what that was. 

It was very little at the time, but there was a little bit out there that I was able to find and I ordered hydroxychloroquine and he was right about that, you know, and there were other things that he was right about. 

And I’ll tell you, even when he said something like, what did he say? Something about, like, cleaning the blood or whatever and everybody was like, oh, Clorox. He wants people to drink Clorox, whatever. 

Like, There are many methods such as ozone therapy that Mhmm. Clean the blood. It specifically cleans the blood So that, you know, to get for people especially for people who have, like, long COVID, one of the best treatments is ozone therapy.

And so did whoever he was talking to besides Fauci and Brix and all of them or Whatever. Like, there was somebody in his ear about the natural ways and better ways and the healthier ways.

Maren [00:51:51]:

Because he’s spoken out for a long time before he was president about autism and vaccines and all of that. Like

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:51:58]:

And that was one of the reasons why I voted for him to begin with. In the beginning was the fact that he was because like I said, I’ve been in this vaccine fight for a really long time. And, you know, when he was running for president Back in 2016, I mean, I was never really, like I didn’t. 

Trump was just the guy on TV with the TV show, you know, and, you know, telling people that they’re fired. That’s who he was to me. But then he started to do like, he started to tweet the vaccines and autism correlation, and that’s when I knew he was, like, my hero because he was speaking out about that, and that’s how that’s how I became a supporter of him. A 100%

Maren [00:52:44]:

And I don’t think people quite understand that if he didn’t do certain things, other domino effects would have happened. Like, you had to open up the country. Because if you didn’t open up the country, a certain agenda would have transpired a lot sooner, a lot faster without even us blinking. 

And you’re just not going to convince some people to think otherwise. Like, they think that they have to have it. Right? Right. And then there’s other people who because there’s been so much trust and loyalty to their doctors and their physicians, even though they love Trump, they are still gonna get it because that’s what they believe. Like, well, I’ve been with my doctor for 40 years.

They’ve kept me alive into my seventies, eighties, whatever. Like, I’m gonna just do what they say.

You know, at the end of the day, I always believe that war has casualties, but he gave everyone a choice. And

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:53:49]:

And so and that’s what he did when I met Tiffany, Right? Mhmm. And I said to her, like, this is what I do. I have this organization. I’d love for I was like, you know, your dad, unfortunately, is losing some of his voter base because of Warp Speed, because a lot of the people who love him and adore him are the ones with vaccine injured children, Specifically because of his views on the vaccine autism connection. 

And there’s a whole bunch of people that are angry with Warp Speed. And I had said to her, I was like, if Biden were to become president, I can tell you right now that he will mandate it for everyone. So your dad has to let people know what his opinion is.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:54:31]:

And she said to me, she goes, my dad would never mandate the vaccines. I know how he feels about them. Like, he wants people to have a choice. He’s sharing all these other alternative methods of treatment, and he will never mandate the vaccine. 

And I said to her, I was like and she said to me she’s like, go and tell your people that. And so, like, I made a video and it, like, spread like wildfire. 

But I said to her, I was like, I’ll do my part, but your dad really has to, like, be really like, confirm the people’s questions about, like, yes, he is anti mandate. And lo and behold, the very next day, he went on a radio show, and that was literally what his message was.

He said and he and I remember him talking about it saying, like, You know, some people may not wanna get the vaccine, and that’s fine. I believe that it is a choice. I will never mandate the vaccine. 

And that’s, to this day, still why I know that he’s my president. You know? And so, but then what happened is, like, You know, Biden got into office and he did exactly what I saw was going to happen, and it’s very, very unfortunate and so many people had to in order to put food on their table, In order to keep their job, people you know, I did a lot with the military throughout the pandemic.

There were, you know, men and women serving our country, serving our country for, you know, 18 years, so close to retirement who literally had to choose, am I going to, you know, get out of the military early? 

All of this has now been wasted. These 18 years that I put into serving our country have now been wasted because I won’t get a pension anymore. Mhmm. Or do I just suck it up and get vaccinated and hope for the best? And

So unfortunate that that happened, same with, you know, our firemen, our police officers, nurses, doctors, You know, everybody. And, you know, and I and I and I know that Trump meant well with all of it, and I know that had he not done the Warp Speed and it took 5 years to create a vaccine, we all still would be locked down. 

Especially with Biden as president, we would still to this day I mean, stores would still be closed, and we would still have to show cards to get anywhere. It would have been a lot worse. 

And I don’t think that people who are like, how could you still support him when he did worse weed? I don’t think that they’re realizing that. No. And so However, you know, I really want Trump to start talking about the vaccine issue. I think that going into this next election, the vaccine issue will be one of the number one deciding factors.


The reason for that is because, Yes. People care about Ukraine. People care about, like, whether whatever is gonna happen in Ukraine. You know? It’s but but, I mean, the main things are Ukraine, the environment, electric vehicles, gun rights, All those things. Those are all important. Abortion. All those things are important issues, but the one factor that is The one thing that affects every single person in our nation is the vaccines.

Whether you’re pro vaccine or anti vaccine or somewhere in the middle, that will literally be, I think, one of the number one deciding factors in this next election, especially with Robert Kennedy, who’s running, who and I’ll say Robert Kennedy, he’s a personal friend of mine. 

I’ve known him since 2015. I completely support his, you know, campaign and him running for president. And if he wins, then that’s, you know, awesome because I think he’ll do some really amazing things. 

But, you know, I love Trump and I love his energy and all that he did as a president. He was the best president in my lifetime, and I would love to see him president again, but I really want him to start addressing the vaccine issue.

Maren [00:59:06]:

Issue. I agree. The elephant in the room has to be addressed, especially since you have someone so vocal like Kennedy, who he makes no apologies for speaking out on it.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:59:19]:

That’s exactly that’s exactly true.

Maren [00:59:21]:

And what’s gonna happen is if Trump doesn’t, I believe that Kennedy will be a deciding fact. He’s gonna pull a lot of votes away because he does have there’s there’s a lot of personally, there’s some things I don’t agree with on what his platform, but I will tell you straight up after listening to him on Rogen

Dr. Shannon Kroner [00:59:42]:

Oh, that was the best podcast I’ve ever

Maren [00:59:44]:

And I was like, wow. I can actually appreciate this man a lot more, not just his talk about vaccines because I was very aware of that. I’ve seen vaxx. I’ve seen vaxx part 2. Like, I I I knew that history, but other elements to him, I was like, okay. You know, I I’ve this is plan b, but it’s an okay plan b.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:00:10]:

Yeah. And I’ll tell you, like, there’s never been a time where I’ve just kinda sat down and listened to a 3 hour podcast.

Right? I could not turn it off. I did not want to turn it off. I thought it was phenomenal, that conversation.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:00:27]:

But I do and I do think that Trump really needs to start addressing the vaccine issue, in a very realistic way, people wanna hear his thoughts on the vaccines and not just that they’re great and go get them. You know? 

I think that he needs to really talk about the mandates and how horrible that was and that he will never mandate them and that there are risks with vaccines. And I think that I’m really like, I hope to God that it’s partly some of my influence, but so I gave him my book last week. I was at a private Trump event where there were about 150 people and I was in the 3rd row and the night was kind of winding down. 

He was almost done with the night, and then he randomly asked, like, does anybody have any questions? And I, like, just shot out of my seat. And I’ll tell you. Prior to that prior to him even taking the stage, I remember this.

I sat in my chair and I sat there and I prayed. And I was just like, please God and I brought the book in with me. So let me rewind. 

Before I even went into the event, I sat in my car and I, like, wrote a message to him on the inside of the book. And my message was, you know, thanking him for what an amazing job he’s done as president. 

I hope that he has another four years and that, you know, when he becomes president again, I would love to see him do some kind of an executive order that actually mandates the religious vaccine exemption in every single state so that all children could go to school. 

And then I also wrote that, like, you know, I would love to be a part of if he ever were to revisit the vaccine safety Commission, again, I would love to be a part of that. And so Yes, ma’am.

So I wrote that in the book and I went inside. I sat down. Prior to him taking the stage, I sat there, and I, like, literally blocked out everything. And I sat there and I prayed. And I was just like, God, like, if it’s meant to be, if I meant to get my book into his hands, just, you know, please give me that open door. Give me that opportunity and if it’s meant to be. You know? It is the right timing. Give me the right timing.

And so it was at the very end of his talk, and he asked if anybody had questions. And I, like, jumped up, raised my hand. I was like, I have a gift for you. 

And he was like, oh, okay. He’s like, is it value he says, like, is it valuable? I hope it’s valuable. And so he’s like, alright. Come on up here. So, I went up to the stage and, you know, he had, like, his assistant come and get the book from me because he’s not allowed to, like come down from the stage. And so, I gave him the book, and he, like, he, like, literally, like, he, like, looked it over, kinda looked at it, 

Like, went like that and was like, oh, is this a book that you wrote? And I said, I was like, yes. It’s called I’m Unvaccinated and That’s Okay. And I shouted that.

Maren [01:03:51]:

Because you want everyone else to know.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:03:52]:

I wanted everyone to hear. Right? And so he said, that is okay. That’s good. And the whole crowd, like, clapped. They were cheering. And, and he held it up for, like, a moment, kinda held it to him. And then he said to me, ” Can I keep it?” And I was like, yes. It’s a gift for you.

And he was like, okay. Thanks so much, darling. And I was like, oh my god. Like, What an amazing event. Like Mhmm. What an amazing moment in my life that I’ll never forget. And, you know, I’m so happy I have it on video too.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:04:25]:

I’ve watched that video, like, a million times.

Maren [01:04:29]:

So this wasn’t your first encounter with him either. Right? Like, well, I believe that you’ve met him before. Correct?

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:04:37]:

Yes. So the first time that I met him was actually at an event and I wanted to share my organization with him. I went up to him, had my card, I gave them my card, and I said, you know, I have an organization where I have built this coalition of all these different faith leaders throughout the country of all different faiths that have united to protect the religious freedom of vaccine choice. 

And he was so nice, and he was like, I love what you’re doing. I agree with that, and you should get connected with pastor Paula White who’s, you know, his own faith leader. And so he connected me. He said he called one of his guys over to work with him. 

I was like, you know, get her information, exchange information, and help her get connected to pastor Paula White. I gave it to him last Friday, And I’ve been really kind of having my eye on his truth social.

And yesterday, he posted a few different, you know, posts on truth social Mhmm. Really kind of putting down DeSantis or attacking DeSantis and DeSantis’ push for vaccination.

That’s a really interesting angle that he’s going at right there to kind of bring awareness that, like, DeSantis, there’s, like one of the things that he posted on Truth Social was that, DeSantis gave more vaccines than anybody. 

Somehow or something like that. And then he had another he posted a video of DeSantis saying, like, how important it is to get every single elderly person vaccinated.

Maren [01:06:29]:

Oh, yeah. And so Florida, and, you know, he’s done some good things, and then there’s other things that they don’t wanna address. And if there’s one thing that Trump’s gonna do, he will call out the skeletons.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:06:40]:

Yeah. But it’s really interesting to see that Trump is making DeSantis’ push for vaccination a negative thing against him. Because that’s really something he hasn’t done yet, and so I’m like, oh, Oh. Is my book influenced again in those actions a little bit? So

Maren [01:06:58]:

I’m I’m sure I’m sure it is because everything in this conversation, honestly, Shannon, like, it’s God’s working through you from from putting you in those parents’ lives of their young babies to having you know, and and working through it and starting to connect the dots to your own testimony and experiencing that. 

Like, I believe that we go through these things so that we can share our testimony and help others and that’s what you’re doing. And, like, literally decades of experience and these trials and tribulations that you are helping people with, and I don’t think you’re done yet. I really don’t. Like, God’s gonna keep using you.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:07:44]:

It’s really interesting. This coming week, I’m doing, like, a short little book tour in Florida.

Maren [01:07:51]:

Right? Oh, nice.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:07:51]:

And, and I know there’s people that I’m gonna be meeting along the way. Like, one of the events that I’m gonna be at is, where Eric Trump is gonna be. And actually, I already gave my book to Laura Trump.

I think so because they all have kids too. But, Exactly. But it’s funny because you’re like when you say that you’re not done yet, like, I’m not done yet. Trump feels like it’s the top of the totem pole type of so I hear you. I hear you. So and then I said to my kids, actually, I was like, okay.

So now that I’ve given the book to Trump, like, who’s next? And I wanna say, I think, Elon Musk. I think that’s my next, you know, goal. Mhmm. Elon Musk

Maren [01:08:49]:

Well, hey.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:08:50]:

Joe Rogan.

Maren [01:08:51]:

Joe Rogan. Exactly. And all you need to do, right, is just keep praying on it. I say this every day to God. No matter what the situation, I say, God, let me meet who you want me to meet, see what you want me to see, hear what you want me to hear, tell me what you want me to say, and help keep me out of your way. 

And so God’s gonna keep doing that. He’s gonna keep using you for you to meet who you need to meet. He’s gonna tell you what to say.

Right? You’re gonna hear people’s testimonies and stories, and you’re gonna share them, and you’re just gonna keep doing amazing things. 

Meet Dr. Shannon Kroner

Dr. Shannon Kroner - author of I'm Unvaccinated, and That's Okay

Dr. Shannon Kroner has a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from the Chicago School of Professional Psychology, a Master’s in Special Education, with a focus in Educational Therapy, and a Bachelor’s in English.

Dr. Kroner is the Executive Director of Freedom Of Religion – United Solutions (FOR-US). As executive director, she has built an interfaith coalition of religious leaders who have united to protect the religious freedom of vaccine choice, helping thousands of American’s obtain religious vaccine exemptions for work and school.

Visit her website.

Dr. Shannon Kroner [01:09:44]:

I’m on social media, I’m very active on Twitter. So my handle is @drshannonkroner on Twitter and then on Instagram, I’m also very active on Instagram. My handle is doctor, it’s @drshankron, and the reason for that is because my really Much bigger account got shut down during the election year. 

But, I’m really active there. And then as for the book, people can buy the book directly from me on my website, and I sign a special message, and you can you know, when you order it there, you could say who you want me to write it to, and some people, they’ll you know, my message is it is very personal. 

It’s, depending on who’s getting it and so even, like, what state they’re in and stuff like that. Sometimes people will say, like, this is for my kids, And so my message to kids is a lot different than my message to adults. And, so we book and order the book directly from me. However, if you don’t want a signed book, it’s available on Amazon and it’s also available on Barnes and Noble. 

Here’s the best one. It’s also available online at Target, and it’s online at Walmart. And then it’s also at the Highwire store.

Love to hear it. It’s really amazing to me that Target is carrying it. I love that I love and appreciate that Target is carrying it because they’re so far left with so many other things That to have a book about the freedom of vaccine choice in their, you know, book selling section. 

It’s quite amazing, and I’m happy and grateful that they’ve accepted my book for their store.

Get a personally signed book of I’m Unvaccinated and That’s Ok! by Dr. Shannon Kroner

Need help finding information and documentation for religious exemptions? Check out her nonprofit FOR-US.

If you wanna get more of this type of content, make sure you follow me on Instagram at @macrowley. And if you love this episode, let me know by tagging me on IG or even leaving a podcast review. See you next week.

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